Eva Moskowitz, founder and chief executive of the Harlem Success Charter network, and of  Waiting for Superman fame, recently discussed her recent Washington Post editorial that small class size is neither a guarantor nor prerequisite of educational excellence. Rather, she says the most important reform is to get talented principals in the schools who are allowed the freedom and flexibility they need to help students.

She says class size restrictions turn schools into antiquated relics:  "Basic supplies are rationed in absurd ways: A school will pay $5 million in salaries to teachers who end up wasting time writing on blackboards because the school has run out of paper that costs a penny a page. (Don’t believe me? Ask a teacher.)" 

At Harlem Success Academy, which has achieved some of the best results for poor and minority children in New York, some classes are comparatively large because they have instead given every fifth-grader a laptop and Kindle, every classroom a Smart Board, which is modern blackboard that is a touch-screen computer with high-speed Internet access, and every teacher a laptop, video camera, access to a catalogue of lesson plans and videotaped lessons.  Outfitting a classroom this way is afforded by increasing class size by a single student. 

Here is an excerpt from an interview of Ms. Moskowitz with National Public Radio's Neil Conan:    

CONAN: And that's the argument we hear so often. The fewer students a teacher has, the more time he or she will be able to spend with them. As a result, education will improve.

Ms. MOSKOWITZ: Well, that's a rather blunt instrument for thinking about the quality of teaching and learning in the classroom, particularly at a time of vast economic woes. So we're living in a world where we're talking about teacher layoffs; we're talking about cutting art and music, things near and dear to any parent and teacher's heart. In North Carolina, a school - the second highest-ranking school in the state is being closed because of budgetary woes.

And in these dire times, we have to really think, what really matters to the quality of teaching and learning? And I would argue that it goes far beyond exactly how many students. Whether you have 23 or 24 students or 25, you still need to be able to pay teachers exceedingly well. You still need - if you're going to teach art, you need to have paint. Otherwise, what's the point? Teachers need copy paper. There are a whole series of choices that we have to make. We have to prioritize what is important to us.

CONAN: And so you apply cost benefit analysis?

Ms. MOSKOWITZ: I do. I don't think we can be ostriches, with our heads in the sand. We have to figure out what is it that we want. And I would argue that the most important thing is that we have principals who are really talented, and not burdened by all the non-instructional things they have to do. If they have to spend all their time worrying about the elevator that is being built in their building, they're not going to be able to worry about the quality of teachers.

If we're not able to attract really talented and effective teachers, and give them the professional development they need to get better, we're not going to have great schools. If we don't have the money to have the books that we need for the children - and I would argue, in this era of high-stakes testing, we've got to make sure that the kids still go on field trips; they still go out and about in the world. And that costs money. So we've got to weigh, what are our priorities? And I'm arguing that small class size is by no means the only priority.

CONAN: And you argue that in fact, because allocations are provided per number of students in your schools, adding one or two students above the minimum of 25 - well, that actually results in very positive factors for you.

Ms. MOSKOWITZ: It really does. And our teachers are so appreciative to have the supplies that they need. You'll hear art teachers talking about how great it is that they can design an art project, and get all the supplies they need, to have kids engaged in a creative exercise with the materials that they need.

We also are big believers in technology - smartly used. So I talk about, in the article, how having a Kindle with e-books is so cheap, relatively speaking. And it not only allows kids to get books with an immediacy, but it really increases the volume that kids are able to read. We're a Title I school. And so for us, having access to those books is incredibly important to our kids and families.

CONAN: Yet you're involved in charter schools so effectively, you're coming on to a situation that is a blank slate, a de novo. You can design a class size that optimizes things for you. What if you're already in a public school and you've got 27, 28, 29 kids per class?

Ms. MOSKOWITZ: Well, you know, there are other factors that are inhibiting our school design, and not allowing us to design schools around the needs of children. I have spoken many, many times about the union contracts, and the way in which they limit our ability to have school designs that I think work for teaching and learning. So it's not just class size. There are a whole bunch of restrictions that are inhibiting.

But I would argue that these laws - and you've got them in New York, in Florida, in many other states - that actually mandate what the class size must be. And those were laws that were lobbied for by the teachers' union.

And unfortunately, you know, many politicians - just thinking it makes sort of intuitive sense that passing a law where you can only have 20 kids in a class, it sounds very good; it's great for running campaigns, and so forth. But it actually takes away the principals' and the teachers' ability to be nimble and to say, well, you know what? This year, why don't we have 24 kids in a class. And that would allow us to pay for an assistant teacher. Or that would allow us to raise teachers' salaries. Or that will allow us to get all the supplies that our kids need to be really, really engaged and productive.